Babies, P-A-C And Communism

There are two ways of looking at our life. One way is to look at whether something is comfortable to one, whether it disturbs one's peace of mind and whether one needs it. This doesn't keep an accounting of what one person did to another, whether one owes something back etc. This is the way babies look at life. They do not understand that mom is busy. If a baby needs something, the baby howls expecting immediate attention.

The barter mechanism, on the other hand, looks at exchange of goods and services as the mechanism to address deals between people. This doesn't consider one's needs or pains as the primary factor to deal with people. 

"I have constraints, so i cannot help you. I have needs, so you have to help me" is the way babies deal with the world. Not just babies. Any adult too, when overwhelmed by pain or desire, acts exactly the same way. This is nothing but communism in action.

Focus on pain and desire forms the basis of communism (and Venusian traits). This is also the baby or Child state.

Focus on responsibility forms the saturnine trait, which is the Parent state.

Focus on Laissez-Faire is being in the Adult state. Playing Games as per Game Theory seems to be a combination of Child-Adult started strictly excluding Parent state.

Additional Reading

• https://vbala99.blogspot.com/2019/04/venus-jack-of-line-function.html
• https://vbala99.blogspot.com/2018/02/introspection.html

Venus, The Jack Of Line Function

Depth in a field and passion in it are incompatible with a zest for life. The zest or josh comes from Venus and this goes better with program management of multiple functions than depth in any one. 

Venus is the Jack that manages All Trades and heads the line function. Staff function is created by centralization. It is associated with depth in one field and is the antithesis of Venus.

Kunti And Karna

In Mahabharatha, the story of the relationship between Kunthi and her illegitimate son Karna is interesting. 

After he gets to know that Kunti is his mother they have a affectionate reunion. Soon Kunti asks Karan to leave the Kauravas and join her other 5 sons, the Pandavas. He explains why he is indebted to Duryodhan, the eldest of the Kaurava brothers.

His mother asks him two favors. 1. That he should not fight against or kill any Pandava other than Arjuna who is Karna's sworn enemy. 2. That Karna should not use the deadly Nagastra (a guided missile!) more than once against Arjuna.

Both these favors together more or less eliminate the possibility of Karna doing much harm to the Pandavas while the favors  he granted endanger Karna's own life. It's noteworthy that Kunti didn't grant Karna nor did Karna ask his "new mother" any favor to help protect his own life.

Of course Karna, being the person he was, unhesitatingly grants his mother the favors she asks of him. And in the war, he is killed by Arjuna. 

What I find interesting is that Kunti ensured that her 5 legitimate sons were protected , even if it meant the end of her illegitimate and eldest son. While she makes a show of all sons being equal in her eyes (that the new bride was to be shared by her 5 sons, read here) she makes a clean distinction between the eldest and the younger 5 sons. What is remarkable is her calculating mind at work when she asks Karna the two favors while at the same time having an emotional reunion with him. 

This story is as per the Tamil film Karnan. Quote from the movie's wiki "Karnan is based on the life of the character Karna from the Hindu epic Mahabharata. B. R. Panthulu, who directed and produced the film under the banner Padmini Pictures, had collected most of his information from scholars Kripananda Variar and Anantarama Dikshitar.

I am reminded of mother birds and mother crocodiles that sacrifice their own young runt in order to survive or to increase the survival probability of her stronger children.

It's sad and thought provoking that Kunti saw a runt in Karna.

Dallying With Sacrifice

A friend of mine F,  commented to me that her sister S recently told her that she, S, had been in a relationship with a man M for about 30 years. The sister and and the man never got married, they live in different cities. And that M was from a different community which my friend's parents would not have liked at all.

My friend told me apologetically that she had often taken up her sister's time with some trifles not knowing that S belonged to someone else, that S had a significant other in her life all these decades.

I asked my friend whether her sister was a person who gave two hoots what their parents felt. My friend thought for a second and replied no. So the question of sister "sacrificing" for the sake of parents was obviously not the case.

I told my friend that there is likely a reason for S and M not to have gotten married for so long. And that is that they probably wanted nothing more than a good relationship - maybe something like FWB. Maybe neither wanted anything more from each other. 

And I added that my friend taking up her sister's time, though unknowingly, was perhaps a welcome diversion in her sister's life. The sister could probably tell the man that she was busy helping my friend. Maybe the man had a similar thing in his life. My friend and her parents provided a legitimate diversion to the sister. Maybe a much needed diversion. 

If someone is unable to find time for a particular person or activity (POA) then that POA was never that important to them. If that person actively finds other activities to do while keeping the POA under wraps then that POA was more like a drug - nice to dally with but not nice to have full time.

The idea of people sacrificing their life for the sake of someone other than their children is remote. 

My friend felt that her sister used to help her, F, out at some cost to her own relationship. Na. No way. It was likely convenient to S. That  definitely doesn't reduce the value of the help provided.

That leads to an aphorism. If someone seems to be sacrificing their life, they aren't. They are doing it for some personally convenient or desirable reason. 

I finally asked my friend if she would feel better if her sister had (1) sacrificed her own life, not getting married nor having her own family, for the sake of parents or (2) if sister had a personal reason for not getting married that had nothing to do with the parents.

My friend replied that the second option was better. She had also earlier told me that her sister was also unlikely to have resorted to option 1.

This being the case I wonder how my friend, an intelligent woman, thought that the sister, at great cost to herself, was handling multiple fronts without letting on that she was in a relationship.

Women love the abstract idea of a sacrifice but at a tangible level they hate it. I have often seen my friend and other women indulge in such emotional orgasms - hoopla about sacrifices. And often times when I lead them through the circumstances and explain the rationale behind said "sacrifice", they realize half heartedly that there never was a sacrifice. 

I say half heartedly because they, people like my friend, would repeat the "sacrifice" incident again to another gullible audience eliciting orgasmic ooohs and aahs.

Reality is fairly depressing. No wonder the adventurous take to poetry. And we resort to opinions from our S1. 

(For an intro into S1, S2 read https://vbala99.blogspot.com/2017/10/thinking-fast-and-slow-daniel-kahnemann.html)

Additional Reading
https://vbala99.blogspot.com/2018/02/vikram-or-vetaal.html - More on sacrifices

High Venus And Evolution

Most species of snakes lay eggs.. But some give birth to live snakes.. In both cases, the baby snakes are left alone to fend for themselves and survive. The mother doesn't stay..

Can you believe it? A new born snake has to survive on its own. 

And I keep linking the tendency to mould oneself as per environment (what i call high Venus behavior) to evolution. High Venus behavior to me sounds like real time evolution. I know this is a very incorrect interpretation but....

Introspection

I was discussing introspection with a friend. The definition from Google is "the examination or observation of one's own mental and emotional processes." 

I define it a little more narrowly. It is the examination of one's own mind in order to find what you are deficient in, what mistake you made in and that too in an area which matters to you. Introspection leads you to a better understanding of a negative aspect of yourself - an aspect that pains you.

It's my belief that not everyone is capable of such introspection that leads to a better understanding of something negative in oneself which is painful to digest. A strong Venus and perhaps a good self esteem prevent us from introspecting.

Introspection to determine unfairness in one's behavior needs a focus on fairness. Venus's focus on pain and need primarily prevents dwelling on fairness

Entrepreneurs And Employees

Lovely article on the difference in the nature between entrepreneurs and employees:

http://www.businessinsider.in/Scientists-have-discovered-a-personality-difference-between-entrepreneurs-and-employees/articleshow/46305421.cms

http://www.jite.org/documents/Vol8/JITEv8p029-043Johnston281.pdf

A classification of types from the link above:

The four temperaments that Keirsey and Bates (1998) identified are:

• Artisans – Live one day at a time, and can be classified by the following personalitytypes: ESTP, ISTP, ESFP, ISFP.

• Guardians – Are driven by responsibility, and possess one of the following personality types: ESTJ, ISTJ, ESFJ, ISFJ.

• Rationals –Seek knowledge and competence in all they take on, and can be recognised by the following personality types: ENTJ, INTJ, ENTP, INTP. Johnston, Andersen, Davidge-Pitts and; Ostensen-Saunders.

• Idealists – Are soul searchers who constantly quest for meaning and significance in their lives, with the following personality types: ENFJ, INFJ, ENFP, INFP.

Keirsey and Bates (1998) divided the four temperaments into two groups: “Earthlings” which consisted of Artisans and Guardians (all S), and “Martians” (all N) which consisted of Rationals and Idealists. 

As per this article, entrepreneurs are likely to be S because of the need for entrepreneurs to live and survive in a practical world. "Head in the clouds" (N) is a good fit for systems analysts but not for entrepreneurs. The paper suggests that entrepreneurs are more likely to be J than P. I disagree. I believe that J's form good managers, entrepreneurs should be open, flexible focused on the big picture than the immediate closure of issues. The paper also finds three correlations (not very strong though).

• Entrepreneurship correlates with P (I don't understand why the paper mentioned the opposite earlier.)
• F and N are correlated. I have always suspected this because both F and N (Ne actually) are intuitive, able to look beyond the obvious. Both derive from Venusian influence. 
• J, T and I are correlated. I have suspected this also (J and T). I, T and J derive from Saturnine influence. Actually I believe E, Ne, F, P are kinda similar traits. E, F and P being people-centric and pleasant. While Ne and F are both similar in terms of their intuitive nature. Again I, T, J are all similar - they seem to go together, all of them being generally unpleasant.

The article also mentions that innovative entrepreneurs are intuitive. I call them the creators. I have explained this later in this post.

Another definition of entrepreneur from the same link above:

Deo (2005) defines an entrepreneur from two different viewpoints: that of an economist and a psychologist:1. “To an economist, an entrepreneur is one who brings resources, labour, materials and other assets into combinations that makes their value greater than before, and also one who introduces changes, innovations, and a new order.”2. “To a psychologist, such a person is typically driven by certain forces-the need to obtain or attain something, to experiment, to accomplish, or perhaps to escape the authority of others.” 

Entrepreneurs having a driving ambition and an ability to risk it all. Risk taking is a Martian trait. Driving ambition comes from Venus. An introverted person is unlikely to be an entrepreneur. The likely MBTI group that are entrepreneurs are E*FP. An entrepreneur is unlikely to be a T. More likely to be E*FP. Some entrepreneurs are actually creator who stumbled into entrepreneurship. An entrepreneur is a person who is driven to achieve, on the way he tries to find his calling. A creator knows what his calling is. Creator is likely to be I*TP.

On this subject:

"The INTP the perfect right hand man for any entrepreneur." from http://www.quora.com/What-Myers-Briggs-personality-type-are-most-entrepreneurs

"I'm starting to feel that entrepreneurship requires a team with two members, one who exhibits ENTP and one who is an INTJ, or some combination thereof. I've noticed that teams that are too J build one product with too much detail whereas teams that are too P focused build too many products with little detail." from http://www.quora.com/What-Myers-Briggs-Type-Indicator-(MBTI)-types-are-best-suited-to-entrepreneurship.

I saw a table listing attributes needed in leaders in this article.
Most of the attributes seem to FP related. TJ skills such as Planning, Analytical Ability, Functional / Technical Expertise were among the 5 least frequently selected attributes. The frequently chosen attributes were largely ones were Emotional Intelligence attributes.


Additional reading on this subject:

• Page 164-165 in the book "Snakes in Suits": http://www.mtpinnacle.com/pdfs/psycophaths-at-work.pdf
• http://www.bretlsimmons.com/2009-07/entrepreneurs-and-%E2%80%9Cthe-big-five%E2%80%9D/
• http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2012/10/11/the-four-essential-personality-traits-of-every-entrepreneur/
• http://www.inc.com/adam-heitzman/can-the-myers-briggs-predict-your-entrepreneurial-success.html
• http://www.inc.com/adam-heitzman/can-the-myers-briggs-predict-your-entrepreneurial-success.html
• This is a very nice article according to which most entrepreneurs are likely to P's than J's: http://www.intent-conference.de/DWD/_621/upload/media_1878.pdf
• http://vbala99.blogspot.com/2014/10/einstfpj-mbti.html
• http://vbala99.blogspot.com/2015/07/brain.html

Thriruvalluvar And Ann Landers

I came across this quote apparently by Ann Landers "The naked truth is always better than the best dressed lie". And that is in such contrast with the "kurals", especially the first two, in http://www.valaitamil.com/veracity-172.html.

Thiruvalluvar was a person who believed that truth is secondary to being nice. A well-intentioned lie was always preferred to a harsh truth. 

Now, why do Ann Landers and Thiruvalluvar say such opposite things? Landers must have had a strong Saturn and Thiruvalluvar, a strong Venus. Saturn is thoughtful, while Venus cares about maintaining image. Saturn lives in the abstract world of thought, while Venus is about the here and now sensual world. Saturn is about renunciation and seeking truth while Venus is about seeking material comforts and being diplomatic. 

Harischandra might have been another strong Saturn since he refused to lie no matter what it cost him and his family. 

I have always wondered what might have been the discussion been like if Harischandra and Thiruvalluvar ever happened to have a discussion.

Of course, there is no right or wrong. Each person leans towards one end of the truth - diplomacy continuum depending on what he is comfortable with.

J (as in MBTI) people are usually very touchy and not very pleasant while P's are the opposite. The latter are very ambitious. J is caused by Saturn while P is caused by Venus.

A friend sent me this link on Ti and Te (as in MBTI): http://www.celebritytypes.com/blog/2013/04/why-te-is-inductive-and-ti-is-deductive/. I guess I am Te.

Additional reading
https://vbala99.blogspot.com/2012/11/bad-venus.html

EINSTFPJ - MBTI - Basic Theory

This was part of an earlier post. I removed it from there and created a new post here.

What I want to focus on is the kind of responses each personality type gives in various scenarios. This post is on understanding MBTI and its relevance to Vedic astrology.

I have been analyzing the various aspects of our personality for some time and trying to correlate it with the indications of planets in our horoscope. When I use the words horoscope and astrology I am not talking about Sun signs. I refer to Vedic astrology and I do not consider Uranus, Neptune, Pluto which are not part of Vedic astrology.

My specific focus is in splitting our personality layer by layer into our emotions, our mind, our desires, our drive, ability and so on. I want to find out which of these are synonyms or always go together and which of these are independent characteristics. For example desire and drive may not always go together. A person with a low drive may have a high desire or vice versa.

Guess, I have made clear what I want to understand.

This post will contain stuff on MBTI types. I will includes (links to) articles of interest and occasionally my own feelings. At present this post is unstructured and may not be reader friendly. 

Nice posts on MBTI:

• http://insightgame.org/intro.php
• Classroom learnng and MBTI types: http://personalityplaybook.com/2013/10/27/classroom-learning-and-the-16-types/
• http://infj-mbti.tumblr.com/post/102588507108/mbti-misconceptions
• http://www.newdirectionsconsulting.com/leadership-engagement/are-we-compatible-using-the-mbti-personality-assessment-with-couples/
• http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/the-16-mbti-types.htm
• http://www.inc.com/adam-heitzman/can-the-myers-briggs-predict-your-entrepreneurial-success.html
• http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/
• https://ebliz.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/why-you-behave-the-way-you-do-mbti-personality-types/

These are related articles on different MBtI topics:

• Inferior functions: 1
• Nice post on introverted sensing: 1
• Ti and Te: 1
• T and; F, ego: 1, 2
• J and P: 1, 2
• N and S: 1, 2, 3, 4 (nice one on misconceptions about S and N)
• Ni and Ne: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4
• Conflicts in TJ, FP etc: 1
• Difference between Ni, Ne and Women's intuition: 1
• Ni, No, Si, Se: 1 , 2
• Fi and Fe: 1
• Fi and comparing with other attributes: 1
• All functions in real life: 1
• NF: 1
• Relationship difficulties for N types: 1
• Gifted students: 1
• Gut feel: 1, 2
• Statistics on various MBTI types: 1, 2
• Differences between J(udging) and P(erceiving): 1
• Difference between T(hinking) and F(eeling): 1
• Forer effect on how predictions / analyses can sound nice and authentic and non unique and fits just about everyone/everything: 1, 2 (Lovely post.)
• Difference between S(ensing) and iN(tuition): 1 - While most articles tend to give an abstract definition of the two, this article seemed to me to explain the difference well.
• INTJ, INFP, INTP, INFJ Relationships, Compatibility, & the Inferior Function: 1 - very nice article.
• INTJ and INTP difference: 1, 2, 3
• On NF, NT, SF and ST - 1, 2 - both nice articles. 
• MBTI types in the classroom: 1, 2,
• Influential people: 1,
• Holland's 6 personality types or codes: 1, 2, 3
• Stress in different personality types: 1

Numbers given above are hyperlinks to different articles.

My discomfort with the definition of N or S is that they are defined on the basis of GATHERING info. I would say they are different in terms of storing info. Issues in relationships happen primarily because of differences in N and S and T and F. Intuition of the feminine kind is of a survival nature. Intuition as in NT (MBTI type) is to do with understanding the model of this world. N and F are similar in this nature - understanding or knowing what is not visible or obvious. F, E and P attributes are grounded with dealing with people. Such people deal with people much better than I, OR NT or J. Note that I used NT together.

We (rather, the definition of the type) say that N doesn't work with data, only the S does. But T processes the data and hence NT also possibly does. So when a person works with data, does it mean he is T and not N? See the confusion.

Put another way, if you see a person who is comfortable mulling on data, then is he NT? ST? SF? Definitely not NF. Read this to feel a good confusion about N (yes, you heard right).

Read this article. This article deals with intuition as defined in English. It has nothing to do with MBTI's N. The policeman who suddenly says (and maybe rightly) that the butler did the murder... Is NOT N. That kind of intuition is more F.

N, I think is about abstraction, about summarizing. Some people summarize, theorize based on data. These perhaps are the NTs. Some summarize without data whose opinions or theories are proved later when data become available. These perhaps are the NF's. N is the ability to see a pattern which others don't. Others see only disparate data, they are the S's. Is my understanding right? I read this lovely article today about the difference between abstract (perhaps "N") and concrete thinking (perhaps "S"). 

Relating MBTI to astrology:

A friend of mine told me this:

P stands for duality and Libran traits
J stands for fixed signs. I is all water and earth signs
E is all fire and air signs
N is a fire and water trait. S is an earth trait largely
T is an air trait
F is a water trait.

Venus refers to feelings, a keen grasp of sensory information, a need for comfort and hates to be rushed. It loves, is addicted to, comfort. and hence would refer to S, F and P. Saturn is thoughtful, cold and impersonal and pushes itself - it would refer to IT and J (as in MBTI). N would perhaps come from Rahu / Ketu. 

I tried to see whether the states defined in transactional analysis (TA). MBTI type ST. S seems to be the parent state, F the child state and NT the adult state.

It is said that N uses deduction while S uses induction. Some say that Ni uses deduction and Ne uses induction. A friend of mine and I keep arguing this point but we have not resolved it. 

Hearing what is not said, gut feeling and classic INTUITION are all F. These, I think have to do with MBTI N. N abstracts all data and stores only the theory behind it. This theory can be explained to an S but the S may or may not understand the theory. The S definitely won't agree with the theory, rather won't agree that the data points can be summarized so neatly into a theory. 


Here are some articles that explain the difference between induction and deduction:

• http://www.personal.kent.edu/~rmuhamma/Algorithms/MyAlgorithms/DeductInduct.htm
• https://suite.io/isaac-m-mcphee/jvn2y0    https://school.carm.org/amember/files/demo3/2_logic/deduction_induction.htm
• http://www.ekahimethod.com/demystifying-intuition/

A friend sent me this link. About the person whose quote is shown in the link: Is he an F or a T?

Additional reading:

1. http://zombiesintelligently.com/non-fiction/myers-briggs/
2. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/give-and-take/201309/goodbye-mbti-the-fad-won-t-die
3. http://vbala99.blogspot.com/2012/11/bad-venus.html
4. http://vbala99.blogspot.in/2012/01/modified-five-factor-personality-type.html
5. http://vbala99.blogspot.in/2012/05/know-any-hsps.html
6. http://vbala99.blogspot.in/2012/06/new-vedic-astrology-mars-venus-saturn.html

Bad Venus

This post is on the characteristics of Venus.

Harshness:
It's not often that one comes across a horoscope or a person with very poor Venus. They are interesting people, with no aesthetic sense. They have no need for comfort. They repel people with their behavior. Their is nothing sweet about them. 

There is a Thirukkural (A set of 1330 old Tamil poems) poem which goes like this:

Iniya Ulvaatha innaatha kooral 
Kaniruppa KaaiKavarn dhattru.

Meaning: 

Using harsh words instead of sweet words is like eating a raw sour fruit when a ripe sweet one was available.

People with low Venus never heard this poem. They would use harsh words. It's not possible to detect any sweetness in them. High Venus people (especially those with low Mars) would love to be in the good books of everyone. 

People with high Saturn (and low Venus) would be very particular about time, disciplined and they are likely to be touchy, stick in the mud. People with high Venus (and low Saturn) are likely to be less conscientious about time and less disciplined.

Soft Skills:
Dale Carnegie is a good salesman and likely a high Venus person. He looks at soft ways to influence people and make friends. Low Venus people cannot make good salesmen because they do not have the soft skills to influence and make friends. They make friends before of their hard skills. Usually high Venus people cannot tolerate a high dosage of low Venus people (and vice versa). Ayn Rand wouldn't like Dale, high Venus people would.

Hatred for pain / stress and empathy for anyone in pain:

There are two ways of evaluating or choosing / voting:

• Who has spent more effort or delivered more result (Low Venus way)
• Who has more pain (High Venus way)

Do we choose the one who has given more or the who is crying / hurt more? In Tamil there is a saying, "azhuda pillaye pal kudikkum". The baby that cries gets the milk. The one in pain gets the rewards, not the one who has produced results or even the one that has put effort. Many people convey their pain as a currency to be exchanged for reward. For them, pain and unhappiness and feelings of not being well cannot be questioned. If I am not feeling well it is so. I cannot be asked if there is a reason for my not feeling well. I expect empathy (oh you poor dear and cuddle) and not a reprimand (WTF is wrong?). High Venus persons speak a different language. "You made me happy / unhappy so much". The currency used is different: happiness / peace. A high Venus person is nurturing. He hungers for sensual gratification. He wants to see, hear, smell beautiful things. And he values these very highly much more than tangible or "useful" things.

A high Venus person is focused on pain. He thinks 'I don't want pain / stress. I hate anything that gives pain.' He evaluates others largely in terms of 'did you create stress/ unhappiness' and not in business terms of monetary evaluation (what goods / services did you do for / give me and what did I give in return). A person with low Venus and high Mars doesn't care about stress. He takes a lot of stress and stresses others a lot too.

My observations on people I know well indicates that people with high Venus (and high desire) also are more likely to have migraine / headaches. High Venus people include not only people who have strong Venus but also those with average Venus and strong Mars in their horoscope. (Now here is an interesting bit of medical evidence: http://www.migrainesurvival.com/twelve-myths-about-migraine-in-women. Women - the gender that is associated with a stronger Venus, "Men are from Mars" - are more likely to have migraine.). A friend who I thought was high Venus (she is a perfectionist, hates to be asked to explain WHY, not comfortable making decision fast, has a sleeping problem) confirmed to me that she neither has headache / migraine nor does she "enjoy" complaining of pain.

A high Saturn and a bad Venus combination on the other hand becomes a loner. Such a person is incapable of providing empathy, so they don't extend their hands. Nor would they reach out even when they are completely aware that a person close to them has the resource to solve their problem. These people are problem (read: discomfort) lovers. No, they are not people who love to solve problems of discomfort, but they are people who don't mind discomfort. There is no tendency to solve the problem of lack of comfort. They have no empathy for people living in discomfort. There is a total absence of social behavior. This is not incorrect but it is totally strange. A thinking person may not bear to see injustice, a heart person cannot bear to see pain. In Mahabharata, on the 1st day of war the the Pandavas didn't want to fight. their heart wasn't in it. then bhagwan (God) came and explained to the Pandavas why it was right to fight their cousins, the Kauravas.  The head decision to fight was encouraged by god to overcome the heart decision to not fight.

Focus on Need vs due / objective reality:
A person who is very emotional doesn't rationalize too much. He wants his needs fulfilled. His (and others') needs and emotions are all that are relevant to him. "Is he entitled to what he is demanding" is not a question that would come to him, nor would he like that question if he were to be posed that question.

When feelings overcome us, we become blind, we cant see consequences. Imagine a typical man. He would want to have sex regardless of where or with whom. A woman would be more thoughtful in this regard (because of the consequences). She would want to make sure that it's the right person, that the conditions such as the place, the date, the time etc are right. If you asked a man who was raping a woman and asked him if what he was doing was right, what answer do you get from the man? That he NEEDS it, that he has to do it. Does the girl deserve it? Bah.

Here is an article on love. It is about how a person in love behaves. Objective evaluation is stopped and the object of love is accepted completely. And that is what, as per the article, keeps the love strong. When Venus takes over, rationality stops. Which planet stands for rationality? Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Sun, Mercury, Moon? Most likely it is Mercury.

Creation:
Every creation happens because of Venus. A love for something creates a desire to possess, and something is encouraged to be created. The thing flourishes. Without this love / desire nothing can flourish. Without Venus, there is no family nor house nor profession. The best things (and often bad things as well) happen because of our love (for comfort) or desire. Without desire there is no achievement. High Venus take good care of things. Low Venus people do not.

Generosity: 
A person with high Venus is usually not capable of much generosity because of his intense love and desire for self preservation. People like Karna, Bheeshma, Ekalavya, Sydney Carton would not have had high Venus, their personal desire must have been low. Each of them gave up precious things. Generosity increases with stronger Mars and Saturn and decreases with strong Venus. Mars gives the energy to achieve (and hence the propensity to be in a position to give), Saturn gives the tendency to reduce wants.

Holistic (zooming out) rather than zooming in:
Here is an example of good Venus: http://m.timesofindia.com/home/opinion/edit-page/Aamir-Khan-says-box-office-returns-not-a-good-measure-of-movies-worth/articleshow/17340855.cms. The tendency to look at things holistically is that of a high Venus. Such persons would hate a simple (or even complex) formula to describe anything. Life to them is not about formula. Low Venus makes a person exclude things and people from his life, those that are not deemed to be relevant. High Mars and / or Saturn, when associated with low Venus, accelerates this behavior. High Venus on the other hand is inclusive. It keeps people and thoughts and things within and associated. High Venus would consider everything pertinent and has social skills. It is good at networking. Low Venus people hence can make better specialists than high Venus people. Low Venus can solve problems faster than high Venus because of the former's ability to remove "unnecessary stuff" and focus on the pertinent. A high Venus and a high Saturn (low tendency to action) is a recipe for indecisiveness. Decision making is about choosing one option and discarding others. A low Venus and a high Mars (energy) jumps to conclusions having thought quickly of a formula and applied it rightly (often wrongly). Look at this quote. Is it not a high Venus person with a holistic view, carrying others with him?
A friend pointed out that her father, a high Venus person, is a specialist. 

Being Touchy:

Touchy people hate to listen to excuses.  Durvsakh Rishi had a very touchy nature plus a temper. 

High mars is capable of SHOWING high anger.. but what causes the anger? Anger is triggered by jealousy, competitiveness, touchiness etc.

Touchy people feel they deserve respect and when its not given, they feel very let down. if in addition, they also have a  high mars and a low Venus, they blow up.  High Saturn people pride themselves in consuming less, being austere and in return they expect an acknowledgment of their nature. If they don't get it, then they feel very negative. Touchy people cannot look at why someone could have behaved in an unacceptable way. When Durvasakh Rishi wasn't attended to by Shakuntala,  the Rishi took umbrage (Saturn's  behavior) and cursed her (Mars behavior). 


Rishi Durvasa was touchy, "How dare someone treat me like this?". If he didn't have a short temper, he would have sulked and OPPU (stand in front of a mirror and say OPPU and see how you look). Since he had a violent anger, he couldn't restrain himself. Now, did Shakuntala make a mistake in the way she attended to the Rishi? Yes kinda. Did she deserve to be cursed? Uh uh.

It's no wonder  then that highly touchy people are so difficult to get along with.

Now which planet causes a person to be touchy? Saturn or Moon?


Traits of Saturn: Low EQ, coldness, long negative memories.
Traits of Mars: High passion, possible harshness, anger, short negative memories

Conclusion:
I found two people whose horoscopes have poor Venus. One is Kiran Rao and one is Aishwarya Rai. Horoscopes are made from the date of birth including year and time and place of birth. These two being actors I would be skeptical about the accuracy of the DOB, especially the year. As per Wiki, both actors were born within a week of each other - around the 1st week of November, 1973. You can use software like Jagannath Hora or AstroSage to cast the horoscope. Now I don't know either of these two people. Those who know them well can confirm to me whether their nature shows a poor Venus.

If you are irritated with this post and thinking "people can't be slotted as good Venus, bad Venus etc" there is good news. You are likely to be a creator.

I will be updating this blog as and when I get new ideas.

Additional reading:
On Generosity:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/is-generosity-better-than-sex/?scp=1&sq=generosity%20and%20marriage&st=cse

http://generosityresearch.nd.edu/news/33630-want-to-be-more-generous-follow-your-gut-harvard-study-suggests/

Type A and Type B personality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_A_and_Type_B_personality_theory

On Saturn: http://www.futurepointindia.com/articles/research-articles/saturn's-role-as-a-disciplinarian.aspx

On Humility, arrogance: http://www.swordofthespirit.net/bulwark/truehumilitychart.htm

On the power of negative thinking: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324705104578147333270637790.html?mod=WSJ_MostPopular_India

Who is Lord Shiva? A person with high Saturn (Kachra, look at his dress, where he lives and in eternal trance), high Mars (look at his anger, third eye, he is the destroyer) and low Venus. Read: http://devdutt.com/articles/indian-mythology/the-third-eye.html

An introvert (high saturn) needs space. A high Mars dislikes space. Venus is driven by desire, Saturn is driven by purpose. Both purpose and desire are important but...

Saturn is tactical while Venus is strategic. Low mars high Venus gives faith, religiousness. Low Venus and high Mars gives passion without ambition, faith nor religiousness. High Mars and high Venus gives ambition.

Stubbornness is a trait both of Venus and Saturn and not of Mars. Mars stands for creativity.

Venus provides the goal. mars provides the energy to reach a goal. SATURN makes one hang on to the goal for a long time. meaning that the heart can also give up too soon if Saturn is not strong (Mohd. Ghazni who invaded India 17 times and lost each time) must have had a strong Saturn. But if Venus is not strong, one does not even have a goal. a strong mars gives the energy to achieve a goal but it doesn't give a goal. A strong sat makes you hang on but if if one doesn't have a goal (has poor Venus), one hangs on out of inertia and not out of choice. But if there is strong Venus you hang on because of faith, because of choice... ("one day things will be better, my next invasion will be successful"). Jupiter contributes by its optimism. What is the difference between Jupiter's optimism and Venus' faith then?

Moon, not Venus, stands for emotions. Venus responds to emotions. The presence of emotions is indicated/handled by Moon while the exhibition or response to emotions is handled by Mars, Venus and Saturn.

On all Planets: http://www.9graha.com/eng/articles/9planets.htm
What is Venus: 

• http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/miscarticles/venus_introduction.htm
• http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/miscarticles/venus_love.htm
• Venus in Scorpio: http://www.alwaysastrology.com/scorpio-venus.html

What is Moon: 

• http://www.astrologyavatar.com/FAQ.html
• http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/2012/02/18/venus-moon/

What is Saturn: 

• http://astrology.about.com/od/satur1/qt/Saturn-In-Fourth-House.htm

Loyalty: Venus Saturn Mars

I was talking to a friend. She told me that I always maintained that Saturn chooses being fair over being loyal and that I also said Saturn doesn't break relationships in a hurry - it being too slow. If Saturn doesn't break, then isn't he being loyal and hence not fair?. So what IS my stand? Is Saturn about being fair or about being loyal?

Good question:

I thought about loyalty and why people stick to a person or thing.

A Venus stays with some thing (or person) because of love (=loyalty). A Saturn stays because of inertia / indecisiveness (not loyalty). A Mars stays because it makes sense (meaning the place is best among all options).

Loyalty to a specific brand or person is Venus. That to an abstract principle is Saturn. Mars is what we say "matlabi" - choosing an option only because it gives the best return; Loyal to the buttered side of bread.

Additional Reading: http://vbala99.blogspot.in/2012/06/new-vedic-astrology-mars-venus-saturn.html